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	<title>Comments on: Put Your Thinking Caps ON</title>
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	<link>http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/</link>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 03:51:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Mike Brisk</title>
		<link>http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6723</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Brisk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6723</guid>
		<description>Great point Daniel, thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great point Daniel, thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6722</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6722</guid>
		<description>What do you think of this answer to the question "How Much was the Ransom?"

1. The transgression of sin is infinite (i.e. it transgresses God - whom is infinite)
2. The payment for sin is infinite (i.e. eternal seperation from God)
3. Thus if a FINITE being pays the penalty, it must be paid for an INFINITE amount of time AND if an INFINITE being pays the penalty, it can be paid in a FINITE amount of time.

The only satisfactory conclusion was for God to come pay the penalty and then we can live happily ever after with Him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do you think of this answer to the question &#8220;How Much was the Ransom?&#8221;</p>
<p>1. The transgression of sin is infinite (i.e. it transgresses God - whom is infinite)<br />
2. The payment for sin is infinite (i.e. eternal seperation from God)<br />
3. Thus if a FINITE being pays the penalty, it must be paid for an INFINITE amount of time AND if an INFINITE being pays the penalty, it can be paid in a FINITE amount of time.</p>
<p>The only satisfactory conclusion was for God to come pay the penalty and then we can live happily ever after with Him.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristen</title>
		<link>http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6586</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6586</guid>
		<description>Thanks Jared and Mike, those are some good insights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Jared and Mike, those are some good insights.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6539</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2007 09:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6539</guid>
		<description>TJ's point on the ransom was valid to a point; eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, etc.  Exodus 21:24-25 - Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.  So, the penalty for sin (separation from God or second death) had to be paid by death.  But only God could pay for that sin because he is perfect.  God could not just create another perfect human being especially outside of Adam and all the promises and covenants to Abraham and David saying that through their seeds the messiah would come.  Acts 2:30-36 - 30. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31. He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35. Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

God is the only LORD, but Jesus made a claim in Matthew 22:41-45 - 1. While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42. Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. 43. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, 44. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 45. If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? 46. And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

His ransom was more than just a penalty but a sacrifice and a prophecy, he paid it in our place willingly, to save those whom he loved; us ( the world ), every person, you and me.  By his power he able to overcome death. 1 Corinthians 15:55-57 - O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?  The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.  God's ransom can only be of himself, through his Son, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

God's ransom was a gift to us, For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. Mark 10:45. 

Romans 5:6-21 - 6. For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. 12. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13. (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adamâ€™s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17. For if by one manâ€™s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19. For as by one manâ€™s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21. That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. 

3. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4. Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6. Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.  1 Timothy 2:3-6

So, In my conclusion to Christ's ransom.  God who is Jesus loves us, Jesus who is God willingly paid our penalty, a just and perfect penalty.  He died for everybody who believes; not just the 144,000, not just the jews, not just one person.  His ransom is his Love for us, an amazing free gift that only God could give.  His Word is truth and it sanctifies us, corrects us, blesses us, comforts us and much much more.  If Jesus was no more than a perfect man created by God, then all the claims and gospel are false, God created Adam as as a perfect man and he couldn't remain sinless, Jesus had to be God .  Jesus is the Word, his perfect Word is divinely authoritative and inspired.  Love you all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TJ&#8217;s point on the ransom was valid to a point; eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, etc.  Exodus 21:24-25 - Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.  So, the penalty for sin (separation from God or second death) had to be paid by death.  But only God could pay for that sin because he is perfect.  God could not just create another perfect human being especially outside of Adam and all the promises and covenants to Abraham and David saying that through their seeds the messiah would come.  Acts 2:30-36 - 30. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31. He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35. Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.</p>
<p>God is the only LORD, but Jesus made a claim in Matthew 22:41-45 - 1. While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42. Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. 43. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, 44. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 45. If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? 46. And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.</p>
<p>His ransom was more than just a penalty but a sacrifice and a prophecy, he paid it in our place willingly, to save those whom he loved; us ( the world ), every person, you and me.  By his power he able to overcome death. 1 Corinthians 15:55-57 - O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?  The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.  God&#8217;s ransom can only be of himself, through his Son, by the power of the Holy Spirit.</p>
<p>God&#8217;s ransom was a gift to us, For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. Mark 10:45. </p>
<p>Romans 5:6-21 - 6. For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. 12. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13. (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adamâ€™s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17. For if by one manâ€™s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19. For as by one manâ€™s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21. That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. </p>
<p>3. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4. Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6. Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.  1 Timothy 2:3-6</p>
<p>So, In my conclusion to Christ&#8217;s ransom.  God who is Jesus loves us, Jesus who is God willingly paid our penalty, a just and perfect penalty.  He died for everybody who believes; not just the 144,000, not just the jews, not just one person.  His ransom is his Love for us, an amazing free gift that only God could give.  His Word is truth and it sanctifies us, corrects us, blesses us, comforts us and much much more.  If Jesus was no more than a perfect man created by God, then all the claims and gospel are false, God created Adam as as a perfect man and he couldn&#8217;t remain sinless, Jesus had to be God .  Jesus is the Word, his perfect Word is divinely authoritative and inspired.  Love you all.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristen</title>
		<link>http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6534</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2007 03:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6534</guid>
		<description>Your view points on the specific scriptures being discussed were more than welcome.  What I am saying is I would mostly disagree with your points on Philippians and Timothy but unfortunately I don't have the time to debate the issues and I want to get back to the original post.  Anyway, as Mike pointed out  intellectual discussions are not going to change the heart of a person but only the working of the Holy Spirit so lets leave it at that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your view points on the specific scriptures being discussed were more than welcome.  What I am saying is I would mostly disagree with your points on Philippians and Timothy but unfortunately I don&#8217;t have the time to debate the issues and I want to get back to the original post.  Anyway, as Mike pointed out  intellectual discussions are not going to change the heart of a person but only the working of the Holy Spirit so lets leave it at that.</p>
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		<title>By: TJ</title>
		<link>http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6532</link>
		<dc:creator>TJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2007 02:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6532</guid>
		<description>Kristen,

I didn't think I sidetracked the discussion, it was already on the subject of the Trinity when I first posted. So I thought it would be allowable to bring another viewpoint to the evidence being given. The reason I gave 'commentary' was to give our position on verses that are commonly misunderstood. They are valid points. Mike quoted Philippians that says that Jesus is Lord and that everyone will bend their knee to him. From experience, I know that most people will read this and understand it as clear proof that he is God, forgetting that Jesus was made Lord by his Father, God. Daniel asked his questions about a verse with a spurious history, which is sometimes used as a Trinity 'proof' text. He never said that we must give one word answers, rather, "let me know what you find." I thank you for allowing the discussion on your blog.

Have a great day,
TJ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kristen,</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t think I sidetracked the discussion, it was already on the subject of the Trinity when I first posted. So I thought it would be allowable to bring another viewpoint to the evidence being given. The reason I gave &#8216;commentary&#8217; was to give our position on verses that are commonly misunderstood. They are valid points. Mike quoted Philippians that says that Jesus is Lord and that everyone will bend their knee to him. From experience, I know that most people will read this and understand it as clear proof that he is God, forgetting that Jesus was made Lord by his Father, God. Daniel asked his questions about a verse with a spurious history, which is sometimes used as a Trinity &#8216;proof&#8217; text. He never said that we must give one word answers, rather, &#8220;let me know what you find.&#8221; I thank you for allowing the discussion on your blog.</p>
<p>Have a great day,<br />
TJ</p>
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		<title>By: mama jacquie</title>
		<link>http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6531</link>
		<dc:creator>mama jacquie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2007 02:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6531</guid>
		<description>I was just going to say that!  I have thoroughly enjoyed reading them.  Thanks everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just going to say that!  I have thoroughly enjoyed reading them.  Thanks everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristen</title>
		<link>http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6527</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jan 2007 23:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6527</guid>
		<description>Side Note : I would like everyone to notice the amount of comments I've had.  I think its a record.  Who new!?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Side Note : I would like everyone to notice the amount of comments I&#8217;ve had.  I think its a record.  Who new!?!</p>
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		<title>By: Kristen</title>
		<link>http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6516</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jan 2007 22:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6516</guid>
		<description>I'm not upset. I just want the conversation to stay focused.  As  said before the amount of proof text for the deity of Christ and the trinity is numerable starting with Genesis and ending with Revelations and unfortunately I can't continue an in depth conversation on every one of those verses.  You continued to give your commentary on Philippians when Mike was clearly just leaving it to be considered on a personal level and instead of just answering the questions left by Daniel you gave more commentary.  Again I can not continue to address every verse.  I will say that as far as 1 Timothy goes most Bibles have a foot note saying that "God" is also translated "Who" and list the manuscripts were this is the case.  We obviously don't base our whole belief system off of this one verse and are educated in the differences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not upset. I just want the conversation to stay focused.  As  said before the amount of proof text for the deity of Christ and the trinity is numerable starting with Genesis and ending with Revelations and unfortunately I can&#8217;t continue an in depth conversation on every one of those verses.  You continued to give your commentary on Philippians when Mike was clearly just leaving it to be considered on a personal level and instead of just answering the questions left by Daniel you gave more commentary.  Again I can not continue to address every verse.  I will say that as far as 1 Timothy goes most Bibles have a foot note saying that &#8220;God&#8221; is also translated &#8220;Who&#8221; and list the manuscripts were this is the case.  We obviously don&#8217;t base our whole belief system off of this one verse and are educated in the differences.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6515</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jan 2007 22:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natealderson.org/2007/01/10/put-your-thinking-caps-on/#comment-6515</guid>
		<description>http://www.contenderministries.org/jehovahswitnesses/nwt.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.contenderministries.org/jehovahswitnesses/nwt.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.contenderministries.org/jehovahswitnesses/nwt.php</a></p>
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